Panels Under Stairs

[Rock86]

I believe I am safe, but I am still questioning this. The building is not providing me the room required to mount the equipment in a room. I have two panels located under a staircase. Does 110.26 apply to stairs? Are they considered "Foreign Systems"?

 

[infinity]

IMO the foreign systems provision would not apply to a stairwell which is part of the structure.

 

[augie47]

You would still need the 6-1/2' "headroom" required in 110.26(A)(3) would you not ?

 

[infinity]

You would still need the 6-1/2' "headroom" required in 110.26(A)(3) would you not ?

Yup. A standard door is 6'8" so if the the scale is correct he's good to go.

 

[augie47]

 

[Rock86]

Thanks gents (or whatever pronouns you go by ) Yes, I do meet the 6'-6" rule, but no way would I have met the 6'-0" above rule.

 

[Fred B]

Under stairs no provisions to prevent other than the clearance already mentioned, but can't be ON (over) a stairway, 240.24(F).

 

[Rock86]

Under stairs no provisions to prevent other than the clearance already mentioned, but can't be ON (over) a stairway, 240.24(F).

So you don't like this? hahahaha.

 

[Jraef]

... but no way would I have met the 6'-0" above rule.

That just means that no other equipment can be in that space 6' above the panelboard.

"No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone."

I wouldn't call a stairwell platform "equipment", it is a "structure".

 

[ptonsparky]

So you don't like this? hahahaha.


View attachment 2569477

Looks like a j box to me.

 

[Rock86]

Looks like a j box to me.

nope, there were circuit breakers in there.

 

[PD1972]

Are these stairs in a rated exit enclosure? Do these panelboards only serve stair related loads?

There are a couple of requirements from NFPA 101 and the 2020 NEC that prohibit installing conduit or wiring not required for the stairs in the exit enclosure. IBC based building codes prohibit using the exit stairway for any purpose other than a means of egress and a circulation path. Some of these requirements may prohibit you from doing what you are proposing depending on your installation and adopted codes of where this work is taking place. References for these found below.

• NEC 2020 - 300.25
• NFPA 101 2015- 7.1.3.2.1(10)
• IBC 2018 - 1023.1

 

[kwired]

IMO the foreign systems provision would not apply to a stairwell which is part of the structure.

Yup. A standard door is 6'8" so if the the scale is correct he's good to go.

And as far as "dedicated space" above the equipment, the stairs is the structural ceiling,if they are over the equipment.
That transformer does not require "working space".

 

[kwired]

So you don't like this? hahahaha.


View attachment 2569477

Certainly can't add a new panel to that location, nor will most AHJ's allow you to upgrade that one and leave it in that same position.

I don't know when NEC started prohibiting such install over the stairs, so is possible it can remain there if it was compliant when installed.

The handrail is still a problem though.

 

[Jraef]

Certainly can't add a new panel to that location, nor will most AHJ's allow you to upgrade that one and leave it in that same position.

I don't know when NEC started prohibiting such install over the stairs, so is possible it can remain there if it was compliant when installed.

The handrail is still a problem though.

Unless that's just a remnant and is an empty box...

I was touring a plant once to do NFPA-70E labeling assessments and counted an ITE branded box in a wall for investigation and labeling. The Plant Engineer commented on my spreadsheet that there were no panelboards in that location. Longer story short I went back and sure enough, it was used to store first aid supplies...

 

[Jraef]

• NEC 2020 - 300.25,

• NFPA 101 2015- 7.1.3.2.1(10)

Meh...

300.25. Exit Enclosures (Stair Towers). Where an exit enclosure is required to be separated from the building,...

This is a staircase, not an "exit enclosure separated from the building".

IBC 2018 - 1023.1

This doesn't say "exit enclosure", but is the UNDERSIDE of the staircase part of the exit path? Is this an exit at all? Not enough info on this aspect.

 

[PD1972]

This is a staircase, not an "exit enclosure separated from the building".

It is unclear what the purpose of the staircase is. If this set of stairs is intended for egress from the floor above then the staircase is probably located in a stairwell that is probably a rated assembly that encloses the "exit" of the floors above (hence "exit enclosure"). Take this explanation with a grain of salt as I am not an architect, but that is how I understand it to be. The "separated from the building" portion refers to the required fire separation of egress stairwells. Additional info is needed from the OP to determine if this is applicable. I believe 300.25 was added to align with NFPA 101, but NFPA 101 is as clear as mud.

This doesn't say "exit enclosure", but is the UNDERSIDE of the staircase part of the exit path? Is this an exit at all? Not enough info on this aspect.

The ICC suite of building codes uses different verbiage to describe things compared to NFPA. The IBC uses "interior exit stairways". I do agree that there isn't enough information to state anything conclusive.

To my understanding, all those references essentially mean the same thing - keep anything unrelated to the exit stairs outside of the rated stairwell.

I don't know if all of this is applicable as it is very much a case-by-case basis. From the section view provided by the OP, it looks to me like the first floor landing of of an exit stairwell/stair tower. However, if that is not the case then none of the references provided apply.

 

[Fred B]

The ICC suite of building codes uses different verbiage to describe things compared to NFPA. The IBC uses "interior exit stairways". I do agree that there isn't enough information to state anything conclusive.

Makes sense if this is the Egress stairs and it maybe even the only Exit in case of emergency.